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10-17-2009, 07:55 PM   #5 (permalink)
Old Elbows
Junior Member
I would love to see that research but so far am unable to come up with the appropriate keyword search to find the article.

In my experience on separate occasions bought 3 dogs that were already adults who's vets said xrays looked good. In all cases I did OFA xrays of elbows and hips and in each case they came back as elbows normal and hips mildly displastic so I had to find them homes because I refuse to breed a dog with less than a good rating & I lost a lot of money in those purchases and the testing.

Then when I was searching the OFA database for specific lines where both were done, in 99% of the cases hips were bad yet elbows normal. This finding was confirmed also by a breeder 15 yrs breeding the Berner who quit wasting money on elbows because it was always hips that had the problems.

I am sure there are legitimate cases but it makes me wonder that if word has spread nationwide that vets can cash in on tricking people who's dogs that have pano into having unnecessary surgery would then be added to studies that elbows are now major concern over hips yet those studies would actually be misleading since most of the surgeries were done on a fraudulent basis.
I am not saying your dog did not have a serious joint condition from either random genetic issues or from being stepped upon but I do need to look into this issue and possibly start x-raying front joints again but in all cases none of the original problems my puppy customers had resulted in surgeries so I really need to think this through.

If your breeder should decide to xray her dog's front joints and they come out as normal and if your dogs joints were the result of a random genetic defective gene and not an injury then this is to be expected, there is nothing any breeder can do beyond this other than offer a good warranty because as long as the breeder adults come out good or better on hips & other joints then they are suitable for breeding.

The goal of any breeder would be to find dogs that are in the excellent category and those are near an impossible find and the ones that do have them that are within the show arena become stingy, they won't share those good genes and becomes some kind of elitists privilege to be able to breed with or have offspring amongst those specific dogs which is a total shame as this does not help the breed but pretty much keeps the best of the best near extinction... and I am sure very pricey as well.

If you have articles on elbows please share the information. Thanks.

Also, look in your contract for anything covering genetic issues. That generalization could cover front joints and that is always stressful for the breeder because it might be difficult to know if a dog is dealing with a genetic issue or if it were an injury.
Then I always tell puppy shoppers to see warranty's and all certifications before ever looking at a puppy. Even as a breeder looking for dogs I got cheated and lied to repeatedly before I wised up and realized the general public doesn't stand a chance against these people.

One thing to do is study contracts carefully. In many cases the contract may state that if you have any genetic problems to just bring the dog back to exchange for another
What !!!
Yeah, like your exchanging a defective bicycle.
The percentages are near zero that people will take a puppy they fell in love with in that first year then dump him at the breeders place for another. I found out the breeders who practice this turn this dog over to people who "rescue" dogs who charge a rescue fee and the new owner is told he was rescued from a puppy mill so out of sympathy the new owner will then be strapped with the bills to fix or put down the animal.
Like I said before nothing is as it seems.

Read the contract, study it, if you don't like it ask to make changes, if they say no then walk away. That's why I say to do this before looking at the puppies because you can't help but fall in love with the puppy then everything else after that is a blur. I only know this through experience.

The business of breeding is tough, there are a lot of expenses that go out, dogs that go sterile or other problems, puppies that die either naturally or from Mom carelessly laying on them or even puppies that don't sell so offering to give people's money back is risky. I do offer that in cases of umbilical hernias for the cost to fix it but if there would be any serious situation then I offer a replacement at anytime and you can keep the other dog and decide to do surgery or put the dog down. I wouldn't dream of taking your loved pet away from you or try to pull a scam of exchange like these other breeders. I have too much heart to do that to other people.
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